by pedro lopez
11:11 am in workshops by pedro lopez
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Periodo de realización de la encuesta 12.05.10 / 04.06.10 (24 días)
Period of the survey 12.05.10 / 04.06.10 (24 days)
Encuestas completadas 2634
Survey Completed 2634
sorry for the upload confusion. anyhow – here are some general thoughts concerning the questions Pedro asked for.
hope you will find it worth reading.
the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet in recent years …
yesterday night I heard a piece of music on my ipod by a dutch composer using no classical instruments but unusual ones and electronics. the piece sounds sometimes classical, but partly as – hard to describe, it sounds nowadays. to me it mediated interesting sounds, new to me and at last I found it just fascinating. I could have heard it on the internet too.
to describe the piece as experimental, or art music, even sound art wouldn`t be wrong.
you can find thousands of pieces of good experimental music on the net and many more thousands of pieces which sounds bad. that is no matter of quality but of taste .
the only thing you can say for sure about the evolution of experimental music is that
technically it has never been easier to produce and distribute of course.
the quality of content …
shifting – as everything.
the distribution via internet …
… evokes the paradox that the more experimental music is released here the fewer people are listening to it. who can spend days or weeks to all the stuff ? there are thousands of sites, musicians, geographical areas and cultural fields to watch and listen to where music comes from, globally.
the intention of democratic publishing works contraproductive to its purpose. one have to make a decision : I like this site and want to release my stuff there or I start a site by my own and do what I want …
what is sound art…
sounds put together whether coming from an instrument, the environment, the computer
ore elsewhere – composed or not composed – can be regarded as sound art.
discographic criticism – useful or not …
too often a matter of thumbup / thumbdown. really not very useful, so my recommendation is not to care too much about this.
approve the use of the mp3 to listen to sound art …
this is an artists decision – nothing else.
difference between sound art and experimental music …
I cannot see any difference if I do not know the purpose of the work declared.
different genera included in the sound art …
if experimental – sound – art – music has a meaning there should not exist any borders otherwise it would not be experimental music … or art. generas are useful only if one want to look after something – like in a library – not for the creative process like writing a book or creating sound art , but one has to know her/his materia.
earwolf ⎣Wolfgang Peter Menzel⎤
Hi Wolfgang, so what do you think about articles like this that define sound art as something radically different of musical practice?
http://emfinstitute.emf.org/articles/aldrich03/aldrich.html
hello Rafa.
sorry for the delay …
art is – when it comes to the crucial point of dicussion – a social category. what defines it, shifting through different historical periodes , are the social presumptions
of what is regarded as art ( where and how it expresses meaning). this is even
valid for the sound art field including different forms of practising and listening to music – organized sound.
art cannot be, categorially seen, oil colors or sounds or whatever means an artist uses. all these non art relevant categories Marcel Duchamp already has made up with.
so, sound art implicates sound as its material, sound generated from whereelse,
the human voice, the bodys sounds, sounds you do not hear, even stillness.
the second step for the artist to fullfill her/his work is the purpose with the soundwork and where to let it be heard – as an installation in a gallery, broadcasted, on the street or as a performance – whatever.
hereby the form implicates the message / the content of the work. this is my general
opinion. I refuse to make a difference between experimental music and sound art. sound is sound – materia – and art is the special content/message this form is given by an artist including the choice of place to perform it.
sure – sound is more than music, sound art is wider than music but at the end even sound art could become music which maybe will be called something else.
shortly: sound art is – in my opinion -in the field of artistic practice – experimental soundwork that because of social (non)acceptance contributes to the societys cultural needs. as an artist I give a dime for what the listener/spectator is calling my work, as a category – the important matter is her/his acceptance of it, the spectators / listeners openess regarded as both a social and a cultural qualtiy.
what would the purpose be for the public to make a difference between sound art and experimental music ? As Aldrich says: There is no definitive consensus.
The other crucial issue in Aldrich text is about what he calls construction, I think it is much more than construction.Yes, even coincidence and indetermination is a modus of construction.
I do not think that Aldrich is right here because using the mirror theory, saying that social organisation is reflected in compositional structure, is a contradiction in itself, it is determinism.
Even conceptualism which includes redefining the sound art category
every time an artist composes a piece – whether as sound art or music. Conceptualism as sound art or experimental music redefines both the art category and the music.
and – last not least – I believe that the conception of experimental art mostly is used to characterize that a listener / visitor should not expect the usual thing but be prepared to hear something new.
hope you find this reasonable.
earwolf
What is your opinion about the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet in recent years?
¿Cual es tu opinión sobre la evolución de la música experimental y el arte sonoro en internet en los últimos años?
Answer: positive-positiva
How about the quality of content?
¿Qué opinas sobre la calidad de los contenidos?
Answer: It depends of each content, of course.
How about the distribution via internet?
¿Qué opinas sobre la distribución a través de internet?
Answer: positive-positiva
Can you define what is sound art?
¿Puedes definir qué es el arte sonoro?
Answer: Sound Art is sound used artistically, not necesarily with musical intention, but plastical, spatial, architectural, radiophonic and so on. Sound Art is a crossroads between different artistic fields, but it isn’t experimental music, avant-garde or glitch
The discographic criticism is useful for you?
¿La crítica discográfica es útil para tí?
Answer: Could be interesting, but specially if critics are enough serious with terms and concepts, and they use independent criteria.
Think that music is distributed via the Internet must have an economic value or must be free?
¿Piensas que la música a través de internet debe de tener un valor comercial o debe de ser gratis?
Answer: It depends of many variables. Isn’t too easy click one of both possibilities.
approve the use of the mp3 to listen to sound art?
¿apruebas el uso del mp3 para escuchar arte sonoro?
Answer: In case of Internet, yes. But for instance Sound Installations need another kind of listening -specially because they are using more than two sound channels and it stablish a dialogue with a concrete space as a main part of the work.
You can explain what is the difference between sound art experimental music?
¿Puedes explicar cual es la diferencia entre música experimental y arte sonoro?
Answer: Experimental Music tries to be first of all ”music”, and of course uses -or it should use- an experimental attitude to do it. Sound Art isn’t necesarily music, as I said before.
Can you cite some of the different genera included in the sound art?
¿Puedes citar algunos de los diferentes géneros incluidos en el arte sonoro?
Answer: Sound Installation, Radioart, Sound Poetry, Intermedia Concerts and Performances…
Hi José,
thanks for your participation in survey,
but I recognize that I’m a bit confused… 
An Intermediate Concert it’s sound art? or a combination of (experimental) music and other disciplines such as video-art etc. .. among which may be included some performative practices related to sound art.
I’m right?
Under my opinion and experience, experimental music and sound art have points of contact but they are activities clearly separated by, at least, a different criteria of organizing sound. Music has a musical intention and appeals to a musical recognizion of patterns and a kind of perception in which authors have worked and expanded during centuries. Sound art uses a mixed criteria or even intermedia to organize sound material in time/s and space/s. Let me say: architectural, poetical, narrative, theatrical, even musical criteria…but in a mixed way (I.e.: in Hörspiele or Fiction radio works, or in sound installations) In any case, I don’t know why some people is interested in associate experimental music with sound art. Maybe it’s a prestige operation.
By Andi Chapple On May 15, 2010 1:39 pm
What is your opinion about the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet in recent years? ¿Cual es tu opinión sobre la evolución de la música experimental y el arte sonoro en internet en los últimos años?
Answer: positive-positiva
How about the quality of content? ¿Qué opinas sobre la calidad de los contenidos?
Answer: from very good to very bad – this is a good thing; the internet has made it easier for work to be shared and this means ordinary and bad work can be heard more, this is good as most artists produce ordinary or bad work
How about the distribution via internet? ¿Qué opinas sobre la distribución a través de internet?
Answer: mixed – internet distribution has made it very much easier to share work, but has destroyed the existing models of recompense for artists. that said, the older model didn’t see more people getting paid I think – just more of them getting in debt to e.g.
Can you define what is sound art? ¿Puedes definir qué es el arte sonoro?
Answer: no
The discographic criticism is useful for you? ¿La crítica discográfica es útil para tí?
Answer: I’m sorry, I don’t understand the question.
Think that music is distributed via the Internet must have an economic value or must be free? ¿Piensas que la música a través de internet debe de tener un valor comercial o debe de ser gratis?
Answer: most will be free or very cheap but people will still be happy to pay for good work when they want it enough, even if piracy is widespread.
approve the use of the mp3 to listen to sound art? ¿apruebas el uso del mp3 para escuchar arte sonoro?
Answer: yes – my hearing and audio set-up are reasonably good but I can’t tell the difference between high-quality MP3 and lossless formats. a lot of my work is site-specific though, so I prefer people to hear it live!
You can explain what is the difference between sound art experimental music? ¿Puedes explicar cual es la diferencia entre música experimental y arte sonoro?
Answer: it may be a social distinction – people who do sound art come from a milieu of visual artists, filmmakers, etc., and people who do experimental music come from a milieu of musicians, so they define themselves in difference ways even if the product is simi
Can you cite some of the different genera included in the sound art? ¿Puedes citar algunos de los diferentes géneros incluidos en el arte sonoro?
Answer: no
By Cara-Ann Simpson On May 18, 2010 4:32 am
What is your opinion about the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet in recent years? ¿Cual es tu opinión sobre la evolución de la música experimental y el arte sonoro en internet en los últimos años?
Answer: Mostly positive, however it is sometimes difficult for people to access due to streaming speeds, but also limiting in regards to modes of presentation. I think in some ways the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet has biased peopl
How about the quality of content? ¿Qué opinas sobre la calidad de los contenidos?
Answer: As with most things there is some magnificent examples and some terrible examples as well.
How about the distribution via internet? ¿Qué opinas sobre la distribución a través de internet?
Answer: positive-positiva
Can you define what is sound art? ¿Puedes definir qué es el arte sonoro?
Answer: I think the term ’sound art’ is quite ambiguous. I believe that it should be divided into 3 aspects: sound art performance, sound art composition, and sound art installation. However, the underlying concept is most important in separating sound art from
The discographic criticism is useful for you? ¿La crítica discográfica es útil para tí?
Answer: yes-si
Think that music is distributed via the Internet must have an economic value or must be free? ¿Piensas que la música a través de internet debe de tener un valor comercial o debe de ser gratis?
Answer: Both
approve the use of the mp3 to listen to sound art? ¿apruebas el uso del mp3 para escuchar arte sonoro?
Answer: It entirely depends on the piece – some sound art works are made to be listened to as mp3s, some aren’t.
You can explain what is the difference between sound art experimental music? ¿Puedes explicar cual es la diferencia entre música experimental y arte sonoro?
Answer: As mentioned above experimental music still retains/displays some formal characteristics of music such as instrumentation, compositional elements etc. Sound art on the other hand does not necessarily need these elements to exist. The most important dis
Can you cite some of the different genera included in the sound art? ¿Puedes citar algunos de los diferentes géneros incluidos en el arte sonoro?
Answer: I briefly mentioned 3 different types of sound art above: sound art performance, sound art composition, and sound art installation. However, in terms of genres there are too many – sound art has the unique ability to interact with multiple disciplines – m
By Cordell Klier On May 18, 2010 2:53 am
What is your opinion about the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet in recent years? ¿Cual es tu opinión sobre la evolución de la música experimental y el arte sonoro en internet en los últimos años?
Answer: Both neg and pos.. since there are so many people arriving into these little hubs that ultimately nod-together via blogs and social media sites…..that similar junctions within what is considered a ”post” sound (aka the building blocks of what many ’t
How about the quality of content? ¿Qué opinas sobre la calidad de los contenidos?
Answer: subjective.
How about the distribution via internet? ¿Qué opinas sobre la distribución a través de internet?
Answer: positive in the regard that it is easier to access. yet negative because distributors still consider something from ”another” country as being somehow more of a special item and thus agree to charge a few bucks more.. which is fine, but ultimately a lie
Can you define what is sound art? ¿Puedes definir qué es el arte sonoro?
Answer: as a magazin-defined-genre, yes: anything on Non-Visual Objects or the Portuguese label Creative Sources. as a sound, certainly not. personally.. I believe that all things are artist, thus even nazi-punk to a certain level is as much ”art” as say
The discographic criticism is useful for you? ¿La crítica discográfica es útil para tí?
Answer: depends.. useful frames of reference without a sound-clip is always a deterrent.
Think that music is distributed via the Internet must have an economic value or must be free? ¿Piensas que la música a través de internet debe de tener un valor comercial o debe de ser gratis?
Answer: I give all my work for free because my sound has always been to ”outsider” for the record-heads that have asked to deal with my work. I found letting people DL it for free was the lesser of the two evils.
approve the use of the mp3 to listen to sound art? ¿apruebas el uso del mp3 para escuchar arte sonoro?
Answer: only high quality mp3s.
You can explain what is the difference between sound art experimental music? ¿Puedes explicar cual es la diferencia entre música experimental y arte sonoro?
Answer: can anyone, really? but I guess that is why you created this survy.
Can you cite some of the different genera included in the sound art? ¿Puedes citar algunos de los diferentes géneros incluidos en el arte sonoro?
Answer: found sound,clang-n-bang, diy-punk, art-rock, minimalist, ultra-minimalist, abstract-hop, silencia, peering, no-wave jazz, .. most titles these days are kinda crap..
By Brian Parsons On May 19, 2010 4:17 am
What is your opinion about the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet in recent years? ¿Cual es tu opinión sobre la evolución de la música experimental y el arte sonoro en internet en los últimos años?
Answer: The internet has provided a platform for artists who are working in experimental music and sound art that has expanded the perceptions of what sound and music is for millions of people.
How about the quality of content? ¿Qué opinas sobre la calidad de los contenidos?
Answer: Because we can now find artists who are not in record stores or mainstream media sources, I view this as positive overall. This is not to say there are not loads of artists creating uninteresting music, there are, however, with the good comes the bad but
How about the distribution via internet? ¿Qué opinas sobre la distribución a través de internet?
Answer: There are now a great many distribution sources for artists working in music and sound. It is a matter of finding sources you can trust or that are interesting to the individual listener
Can you define what is sound art? ¿Puedes definir qué es el arte sonoro?
Answer:
The discographic criticism is useful for you? ¿La crítica discográfica es útil para tí?
Answer:
Think that music is distributed via the Internet must have an economic value or must be free? ¿Piensas que la música a través de internet debe de tener un valor comercial o debe de ser gratis?
Answer:
approve the use of the mp3 to listen to sound art? ¿apruebas el uso del mp3 para escuchar arte sonoro?
Answer:
You can explain what is the difference between sound art experimental music? ¿Puedes explicar cual es la diferencia entre música experimental y arte sonoro?
Answer:
Can you cite some of the different genera included in the sound art? ¿Puedes citar algunos de los diferentes géneros incluidos en el arte sonoro?
Answer:
by Janek Schaeffer On May 18, 2010 11:44 pm
What is your opinion about the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet in recent years? ¿Cual es tu opinión sobre la evolución de la música experimental y el arte sonoro en internet en los últimos años?
Answer: positive-positiva
How about the quality of content? ¿Qué opinas sobre la calidad de los contenidos?
Answer: mixed quality – like all things
How about the distribution via internet? ¿Qué opinas sobre la distribución a través de internet?
Answer: I think that n Audiofile Album growth model is incredible. one file becomes 10 and 20 and only up to the limit of those who want it. Stops all us musicians of all varieties from wasting oil on filling the loft with 945 unsold masterpieces. I love it. I lo
Can you define what is sound art? ¿Puedes definir qué es el arte sonoro?
Answer: no
The discographic criticism is useful for you? ¿La crítica discográfica es útil para tí?
Answer: yes-si
Think that music is distributed via the Internet must have an economic value or must be free? ¿Piensas que la música a través de internet debe de tener un valor comercial o debe de ser gratis?
Answer: commercial-comercial
approve the use of the mp3 to listen to sound art? ¿apruebas el uso del mp3 para escuchar arte sonoro?
Answer: yes-si
You can explain what is the difference between sound art experimental music? ¿Puedes explicar cual es la diferencia entre música experimental y arte sonoro?
Answer: no
Can you cite some of the different genera included in the sound art? ¿Puedes citar algunos de los diferentes géneros incluidos en el arte sonoro?
Answer: no
by Richard Pinelli On May 28, 2010 03:36 am
Do you think that discographic criticism in sound art is necessary?, Why?
“Necessary” is a difficult word to use in this context. Is “sound art” even necessary? Is music necessary? It could be argued that none of these things are necessary and that all are just nice things to have. For the sake of my answer then, I shall instead ask is criticism important in relation to “sound art”?
Before answering, I should say that I do not really consider the vast majority of what I write to be structured criticism. What I write on a daily basis at The Watchful Ear is merely a description of my own personal listening experience. It is often just a written journal of my involvement with whatever music I have been playing that day, and often will include other information about how I might personally be feeling, the conditions under which I listened to the music etc… Although many of the daily posts do take the form of reviews they are perhaps more informal than we normally would expect from such writing. The only rules I have for myself is that I will try and spend enough time with each CD to be able to feel comfortable that what I am writing is an accurate record of my response to the music, and that I am always honest. Quite often my reviews end up just as lists of questions that the music might lead me to ask. I just write about my experience with the music and how it made me feel. Is this criticism? Maybe, but then maybe not.
Is criticism important? Yes I think maybe it is, but only when the opinions of many critics can be gathered together and considered as a whole. The opinion of any one person, no matter how much experience they may have with the music is only their opinion. It holds no more weight than any other opinion. For a listener that wishes to find out about a piece of music then several well considered reviews can be of help to them. If there is a consensus about a piece of music that has been independently formed by a number of people then this can be useful for someone looking to select music to purchase. The problem that exists in the area of music I personally write about however is that there is a distinct shortage of writers about the music. We need more people that are listening to share their experiences in detail. If this happens then we will have a wide enough spectrum of opinion from which to make educated decisions about purchases.
I do not believe that any musician or artist should ever attempt to change anything about their music on the strength of a review, or collection of reviews. A musician should make the music they are internally driven to make, irrelevant of any reviews. I do not subscribe to the idea that constructive criticism about one piece of music can improve an artist’s subsequent work. All it can do is direct the work towards a preferred area for the critic(s) approval.
What is your opinion about the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet in recent years? What has improved and what has gotten worse in your opinion?
In general, the internet has of course been a wonderful addition to the experimental music world. The ‘net has allowed for huge leaps forward in communication between musicians and listeners in all directions. Music projects have happened that would not have otherwise, people have got together that would not have done so without the technological advances and information has been shared so much quicker and easier. The internet has also made it far easier for someone to quickly gain access to music, both legally and illegally. The fact that anyone with a computer and a broadband link can now obtain the music they are interested in for free can only be a good thing. Many of those that were previously disenfranchised have been able to enjoy the music. It has become possible to sample music that perhaps we would not have otherwise risked spending money on. All of this, in essence can only be a huge positive. There are however a few negatives, that while significantly outweighed by the plus points need consideration.
One negative is the fact that many hard working, well meaning, ethical people that run labels are now finding it very difficult to do so without incurring massive losses. The simple fact is that there are far less CDs selling now on small independent labels than there were ten years ago. While it is great to see the major labels suffering from the impact of free downloading there are a number of well meaning, thoroughly ethical label owners and musicians who have done great work supporting the small experimental music communities for years that are no longer are able to recoup the costs involved in making the music. It is important to remember here that not all of these expenses are the costs of printing and pressing, which can easily be replaced by taking the internet download label approach. Recording and travel costs are rarely considered in this equation. This said, the arrival of the internet has also allowed listeners to make contact directly with labels and musicians and order CDs directly from them, thus maximising the amount of money that arrives directly back with the people responsible for making the music.
My biggest concern regarding music on the internet is how the new methods of listening that are now available to us seem to be reducing the amount of attention that a listener might be paying to the music. There are much discussed issues surrounding file compression. Different rates of compression might lead the music that is heard by the listener to be considerably different to what the musicians originally intended. This cannot be a good thing. An even more concerning issue for me though, and one that is discussed much less is the manner in which many people listen these days. I do not believe super high quality audiophile equipment is necessary for listening to music, but tiny internal laptop speakers will probably not be good enough for very attentive listening at all. Of course not everyone listens in this manner, but a lot of people do, and increasingly the quality of someone’s listening experience seems to be becoming secondary to its convenience.
Also as music becomes free and as it takes much less effort to obtain it, the personal investment that a listener places into a piece of music is naturally diminished dramatically. For many of us this is irrelevant, we still listen as closely and carefully to free downloads as we might to a CD, but for many others this is not the case. If you download ten albums a day (for many this is perfectly normal) then each disc simply cannot be listened to very carefully. The advent of the on-screen slider that allows the listener to fast forward through a piece of music has only increased the likelihood that the music will just be skimmed through before being cast aside for the next album grabbed for nothing. It can of course be argued that a quick skim through an album that would probably not have been listened to by that person at all is better than nothing, but is listening to music this way really improving the ability of listeners to truly absorb what they are presented with? If all art galleries suddenly added a free electric scooter with which to fly around the exhibits at top speed catching a little bit of everything in a fraction of the time would this be a good thing?
So the internet has been great for experimental music, but with the abundant good comes a few bad side effects. The big problem as I see it is one of listener discipline. The relationship between musician and listener is no longer necessarily one founded in any kind of personal commitment, and so it is inevitable that this follows through into a certain amount of casual listening, which to me personally is the biggest insult we can make towards this music.
By goh lee kwang On May 30, 2010 3:26 am
What is your opinion about the evolution of experimental music and sound art on the Internet in recent years? ¿Cual es tu opinión sobre la evolución de la música experimental y el arte sonoro en internet en los últimos años?
Answer: positive-positiva
How about the quality of content? ¿Qué opinas sobre la calidad de los contenidos?
Answer: depends
How about the distribution via internet? ¿Qué opinas sobre la distribución a través de internet?
Answer: positive-positiva
Can you define what is sound art? ¿Puedes definir qué es el arte sonoro?
Answer: yes, they are understanding of sound art in general and in my own way.
The discographic criticism is useful for you? ¿La crítica discográfica es útil para tí?
Answer: somehow, depend on who gives the critic.
Think that music is distributed via the Internet must have an economic value or must be free? ¿Piensas que la música a través de internet debe de tener un valor comercial o debe de ser gratis?
Answer: both are fine with me.
approve the use of the mp3 to listen to sound art? ¿apruebas el uso del mp3 para escuchar arte sonoro?
Answer: yes if the artwork are meant to be listen in mp3 (mp3 as the artform)
You can explain what is the difference between sound art experimental music? ¿Puedes explicar cual es la diferencia entre música experimental y arte sonoro?
Answer: yes. experimental music is toward the possibility of music and sound art is more on the perception of sound in artform.
Can you cite some of the different genera included in the sound art? ¿Puedes citar algunos de los diferentes géneros incluidos en el arte sonoro?
Answer: no
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